BIG NEWS at PMD!

[ozpont]

.. basically ..noting would would make Aussies happier then to contribute something constructive rather then leave it off the list all together or having it made in Mexico or Asia etc. These are going to be well received....

... BUT if fuel is really a problem.. convert to gas ... as we do .. stuff the arabs... . .. we run it perfectly on both the 6 & V8 versions.. brings fuel costs down to around half the current costs ... that is if your governments can handle the loss of tax revenue...!!??
.. mind you . .. in Australia they just signed a (stupid IMO) 20 year contract to supply China with LPG.. for like 2 c per ltr. It's sold here at the bowser for around US$40c by the time its taxed and taxed etc..
Ordinary gas is around US$4 - US$4.50 per US gallon... but your car parts are generally ALOT cheaper...

[bencar]

This is defintiely one of those times where being wrong, wouldn't be a bad thing for me, and Ozpont, your friends in the States, myself included, would be very happy to see Pontiac's G-8 become a smashing success, instead of seeing world Oil price insanity, kill a good thing. Like I said before, it would give me great pleasure to be able to rub the noses of the GM naysayers in the deepest pile of you-know-what I could find, and dare I say, do the same to the naysayers of Chrysler Corp . Sorry folks, I have a split loyalty here, I own one of each as hobby vehicles.

Here's to praying I'm wrong about the effect of rising gasoline prices on sales of the G-8.

[Larry]

Ben,
I can tell you that drilling a hole in the opposite side of the Titanic to drain the water did not work! My Great-Great Grandfather, Capt. John Smith, tried that! I'm not kidding either (well perhaps about the hole drilling!), my Grandfather's mother was Anne Kummer, the daughter of Capt. Smith and a northern Germany coast gal. They literally "fled" to America after he sunk that sucker... kind of an unpopular dude at the time. Now you also know why I went into the Air Force and not the Navy!

Anyway.... the mileage figures of the G8 are presently TBD ("Totally Beyond Decency"?). I will bet that they will actually not be too bad. The hi-tech auto engineeres have succeded in bringing up HP as well as MPG. Remember also, that there are those who can/will still pay for performance. And, good performance coupled with good (at least not bad) mileage will sell. Somehow, people always seem to come up with the money for what they really want. Problem has been that for years PMD and GM have not had a clue what these people wanted.... Ford and Chrysler did, but not them. Let's hope this is changing.

As concerns the Holden production of the G8, I have not seen any negative comments, although after the "new" GTO lackluster sales, I expected some. I for one, never faulted the lack of GTO sales with Holden production. It was simply trying to sell something that was not what it was proported to be. It was as much a GTO as a badge engineered Nissan would have been. That is too bad too, because it is a hell of a car! I would bet there would have been four times the number sold if it had simply been brought to the US and sold as a V8 rear wheel drive performance car out of the Pontiac dealerships. They wouldn't even have had to waste any money tring to hang Pontiac looking panels on it. Anyone wanna bet?!

[bencar]

Oops on that hole drilling idea .

As long as things don't get markedly worse in regards to Oil prices (I hate it when they try mask it by calling it Energy Prices), the product is a quality product (little or no time in the Repair Shop), and it has a pleasing appearance, maybe even attractive, then the production G-8 will have a market.

What wouldn't hurt, is a increase in low skill, relatively good paying jobs, so that the buying market for cars like the G-8, is increased. Now there's something that's beyond GM's ability to create on its own, or for that matter, any vehicle manufacturer. Time will tell if that is ever going to happen. In the interim, hope things remain stable, and what GM can control, it does, so their product sells in high enough numbers to make it profitable.

[super]

As Larry stated, if people really want something, they are going to obtain it. If marketed properly, this car may go over very well. It may be cheapier than comparible models and have better performance.

Fuel prices have not stopped me from having fun. I live on a tight budget as several others do and fuel has not been an obstacle. I just throw the fuel price out the window. We can bitch all day long about fuel prices, but it is not going to do a bit of damn good!

If I were to put a pencil to it, my '74 T/A probably gets around 5 MPG or less. I still drive it. I just cut back somewhere else.

More power to Pontiac. Hope it goes over great. Again, I really doubt they are worried about marketing the car to someone concerned about fuel economy. The new GM engineered V-8's don't do bad anyway. Those people can jump in to a G5.

Jeff

[bencar]

Unfortunately I have run out of other places to cut back. I'm also painfully aware that Trans Ams are not economy cars, and so, my Trans Am sits a lot these days, whether I like it or not.

The other thing I look at, is what my neighbors drive for everyday cars, and except for maybe one in the Parking Lot behind my Apartment, they're mostly Hyundai, Toyotas, Honda, and a smattering of 4 and V-6 domestic Compact cars. There are some big Sport Utility models in the driveways of the private houses around the neighborhood, but most of them are older models, and next to the big Sport Utility, there's at least one of those smaller cars I mentioned above. Granted this isn't a scientific study I've conducted, but it does point out, that once you go outside the enthusiast's world, the picture does change a bit.

If fuel prices remain stable, if wages for a lot of people catch up with Oil fired price increases (and Oil has affected ALL ranges of products, even if they don't contain petroleum), the G-8 has the potential to attract a fair amount of buyers. Of course way back when, 1964 or so, when Oil was cheap, relative everything, Ford did well by introducing a sporty little number, that could be ordered with everything from a basic 6 cylinder engine, all the way up to a nice powerful V-8. Now they sold a lot of those cars, sold them, for that time, at a relatively low price, and a good number with the 6 cylinder, to people who liked the style, but wanted the 6 cylinder economy, even though gasoline was relatively cheap. If that formula worked when gasoline was so cheap, it will probably work even now. GM's future could depend on the outcome, so let's hope they look to the past, for a lesson on how to survive in a time of an uncertain future.

[bencar]

Actually, I'm counting on most people being about as knowledgeable about their cars, their driving habits, and how the two correlate to each other, as they would be about micro surgery. You and I are enthusiasts, we think differently from 90% of the motoring public out there. If you were to go up to one my neighbors, open the Hood of a car, and show them a V-8, they'd automatically assume the car to be a gas guzzler. You can talk until you're dry in the mouth. and they'll still go out and buy a 4 banger, or V-6, before you'll ever get them to buy a V-8.

Like I said, Ford got it right over 40 years ago, and it will work again in 2007, design a sporty looking car, and then offer it with a full array of engine choices. The more knowledgeable, performance oriented, will buy the V-8 model, the thrifty, who automatically associate smaller engines with economy, will buy the 6 cylinder model, and overall, you'll sell more cars.

The general motoring public doesn't want to pay, and most of them would kill themselves if they tried to play. Remember, don't think like an enthusiast, think like you haven't a clue as to what's going on under the hood of your car.

[super]

Coverage of the new G8 in Motor Trend. Looks like it is receiving great reviews!

[Bodyworx]

[bencar]

It's hard for enthusiasts to disengage themselves, and see what the rest of the world is going through, or for that matter, is seeing from outside the enthusiast's vantage point. It's not that being a car enthusiast is a bad thing, but it too often blinds many to the harsher realities of the world around them. My concern for the G-8, isn't just it's rather modernistic, bland styling, but the fact that if you mention V-8 to most laypeople, they go running in the opposite direction. Also, those rosy gas mileage figures with some of the modular displacement V-8 engines, usually are only obtained during sustained highway driving, which is not what the non-enthusiast world is doing most of the time. The argument that there will always be those that can afford the gasoline costs, ignores the fact that those who can always afford ever escalating gasoline costs, don't have the numbers needed to make a mass production automobile company profitable. Yes, performance vehicles should be built, we should never be willing to only accept the mundane, or the underpowered, but with tough times upon us, we have to realize that car companies need to build vehicles that will sell in volume, to a public that's going find themselves increasingly unable to feed vehicles with large displacement engines, and a public that despite the hype, has more recently shown a preference for vehicles, that use the least amount of gasoline possible per mile traveled, when buying a Commuter vehicle, and sometimes, even the family hauler.

I hope the G-8 does sell, I hope the production model is more attractively styled, but GM, Ford, and Chrysler, need to concentrate more on building vehicles that sip gasoline, not gulp it, until, or unless, these so-called alternative fuels can be produced cheaply enough, and in large enough quantity, to feed the needs of a driving public, motoring around in vehicles predominately powered by engines that gulp fuel in large quantities.

[bencar]

Agreed, and unfortunately, reality dictates that I can't enjoy my hobby cars anywhere near as much as I was able to, not very long ago.

[Larry]

I have been out of the country for two weeks and return to find a small article in Old Cars Weekly about GM making overtures toward Chrysler about a purchase. Is this for real?!
Talk about the future of Pontiac as it sits in the structure at this time.... what about if this happens? If so, better be prepared to put everything on hold from GM until they sort out things.
Silly me, here I had though that Chrysler was doing OK. Guess the Germans don't want to carry them any longer.
I guess GM is operating on the old cannibel principle: "If you can't beat 'em... eat 'em!"
Love to hear if someone has heard anything else about this.

[bencar]

Everyone seems to have gone silent since that one outbrist from Daimler/Bent a few weeks ago. It's almost as though someone spoke out of turn, and now they're all playing mute. Who knows just what will happen, and if Chrysler can somehow manage to survive the mess Daimler/Bent made out of things. I'm sure Walter P. Chrysler is doing about 10,000 rpm in his grave right now, considering he left Buick, to start Chrysler Corp, out of the ashes of Maxwell/Chalmers in the 1920's.