Well, I thought I just became the owner of a Lemans?

[russosborne]

I am copying my post from a different site. (in case anyone frequents both)

That is what the model is on the title.
But I just looked up the vin on this site Decoding VIN I.D.(site didn't show up, sorry. It is the yearone gto/lemans vin decoder)
take two. http://www.yearone.com/updatedsinglepages/id_info/gto/vingto.asp
and according to it I have a Tempest Custom.
first part of vin is 235370xxxxxx

I am totally confused now.
Could that site have it wrong?

Thanks,
Russ

[Larry]

Well, I hate to brag, but if you really want the most correct information, PontiacRegistry.com is where you need to check.

Look at the top of the page under 'PONTIAC INFORMATION" then "PONTIAC STYLE NUMBERS."

There you will find your 1970 Lemans to actually be a 1970 Lemans. The code breaks down as such:

2= Pontiac
35= Lemans
37= 2-door hardtop
0= 70

There was no Custom by 1970. If you did have one, it sure would be rare. You could have a 23537 in 1968 (Tempest Custom) and a 23537 in 1969 (Tempest Custom-S)..... but the sixth digit would be the giveaway. For 1868 it would be an "8" and for 1969 a "9." Your's is a "0" just as it is supposed to be.

I suspect the other site just has a mistake in their listing. Now you can rest easier... at least about your car's pedigree.

[russosborne]

Thanks.
you know, I did a vin decoder search on google and didn't even think about here.
And I am the official owner now. Didn't have any troubles.
Although it is still a salvage title, it is MY salvage title.
Russ

[Larry]

I had not heard back, but figured since you were in Ohio, the title was also Ohio, and therefore a good title.

If you lived in Florida and shortly after a hurricane flood discovered your new car purchase involved a slavage title... Oh, oh! Or if you look under your floor pan on a unibody car and see a weld line running across the entire bottom and up the sides... GACK! You just bought one half of two cars stuck together.

I am betting that the old car hobby is full of salvage titles. After all that's where MANY cars come from, and the yard operators seldom keep the titles... or can find them if they do.

[russosborne]

Yeah, getting the title in my name was my biggest concern. I still have to jump thru all the hoops though to get it legal to drive. Went and got some bucket seats for it Saturday, turns out the driver's side is power. Not too bad for $50 for the pair. Decided not to take the rear seats, just didn't have room for them and I really doubt if I could have used them for anything other than maybe making a couch. Someone semi local is looking for a set of 71 green split back bench seat and rear, I told him if he wants blue with some tears he can have mine for the price of removing them himself. I really don't need them and don't have the room to store them.

Took some pictures last night, but I had to use my wife's camera, and for some reason I can't download the pictures from it to my computer. Might have something to do with the over 500 pictures she has on it.

Still haven't checked out the vins yet. Too cold to want to go crawling around on the garage floor, plus we are still trying to get settled into the house.

Russ

[Larry]

Sounds like you're already making some progress.

What did you get the buckets from?

[russosborne]

buckets came from a Grand Prix GTP according to the add on Craig's List. What year I have no idea.

Did a bit of poking around tonight on the car. Vin on the dash matches, once I finally got it clean enough to read. However, the vin on the engine doesn't, assuming I am looking at the right spot. Kind of at 10 or 11 o'clock when facing the engine, along and just below the head on the block on the passenger side. Looks like there are 6 numbers that are centered above a YU, and the last three of them are nowhere close to the last three of the vin on the dash/title. This is the only spot that is smooth. If there was another number somewhere else I think it is gone. Unless it is along the water pump. I took the heater hose off, but not the radiator hose, and couldn't see anything. I thought that the vin was supposed to be easily seen on the block anyway.

This is going to be a pain. Looks like I am going to have to buy another engine and get a receipt(notorized even, unless it is from a business) and swap out a perfectly good (as far as I can tell) engine. This is not in the budget, and I haven't even checked the transmission or rear frame vin's yet. Might not have the car on the road this year now.

I was looking at the exhaust manifolds to see if they had either 5 or 6 bolts to see if I could put headers on without having to have the heads machined. On the passenger side I could only find 4. And they are all extremely rusted, as are the manifolds themselves. Getting them off without breaking isn't likely. Course, if I have to buy another engine, it won't really matter.

I should have learned by now, nothing I do is ever simple or easy.

Russ

[Larry]

Is the concern of the engine numbers matching because of a need for a new title? I thought the Ohio title was OK) even if salvage). Engine changes are common and have gone on for years. A call or visit to the DMV might be a real good idea. Some local police departments can be very helpful too.

The two letter codes you find on the front of the engine are the engine codes (size, etc.) The numbers you need to find are by the head-block split on the passenger side near the front. If the original engine, it wil match your VIN.

[russosborne]

That is the issue. I cannot register this (or any) car that has a salvage title according to the bmv here in Ohio. To get a new non salvage(not sure if it will say salvage-rebuilt, rebuilt, or nothing) the vehicle has to be inspected by the state highway patrol, only at certain locations. Their main focus is to see if you used any parts from a stolen vehicle to repair yours. So they check ALL vin numbers that the factory put on the car. If any of them do not match the title vin, you have to have a receipt showing when, where, and from whom you bought it. If it is a private party, like someone on craig's list, you have to have them have the receipt notarized. And they will run all vins to check if any have been reported stolen.

If any vins are not accessible to the inspecter, he can require the owner to remove the parts that are blocking. I have no idea what will happen if say the frame vin area is rusted away.

Another way of putting it is this, paraphrasing from the bmv website. "It is illegal to operate any vehicle with a salvage title on the highway"

So, yes, if any of the vins don't match, I have to buy another one and get a receipt and hope that one isn't stolen. The bmv can confiscate the car if it has any parts with a vin from a stolen vehicle.

I am going by what the official website says. Maybe for something this old they will just say no problem. But in my life I have found that I will be the one in one hundred that gets checked. So I don't want to chance it.

Thanks,
Russ

[Larry]

Now I get it. I did some reading. All along I thought the salvage title was the same as a rebuilt title... guess not.

I would go down to your local police department or state patrol office. That is who will do the inspection. I would explain everything and ask them if they can give you a step-by-step plan to follow to get to a legal title status.

First, however, I would have the VIN on the car run to be sure the car was never stolen. Second, I would get the VIN on the engine run also to be sure it too wasn't stolen. Third, is there no way to talk with the person you bought it from to get some history and prehaps documentation from him as to how the car got to its present condition. Will he sign/notorize a statement?

You're not talking about a 427 '67 'Vette here, or a hemi 'Cuda convertible. I doubt thie car has a big fraud history, rather just honest engine swaps, and eventually off the road and considered not repairable. Hobbyists have had lots of these situations, I bet.

Keep us posted.

[russosborne]

Well, the guy I bought the car from only had it for 6 months or so. He was just one of many apparently who had the car but never transferred the title into their name. The last "legal" owner was the lady who signed the title in 2005. Which would come back to bite me, since I lied and said I bought the car in 2006 so the title didn't look like it was open for 6 years.
I hate lying.

The inspection station isn't too far from my house, 10 miles or less. I pass it every day on the way to and from work. The step by step is just to make an appointment for the inspection, show up with the car, pay the $50, and if the car passes, they give me a paper that I take to the title office to change the salvage title over to rebuilt or whatever Ohio calls it.
The vins are the serious issue that they look for. They don't do a safety check per se, although the car is supposed to be highway ready for the inspection.

I would think the vin on the title would be checked when I did the title, but who knows?

Part of my frustration/worry is I had a title problem with a 69 Mustang I had in Arizona. Bought it from a Mustang junk yard place, the title was signed by the previous owner in 1993 or something. I bought it in 2003. I never fixed it before moving to Ohio, and ended up literally giving the car away (it was a project, not running, no engine even, but still...) (sold about $5K worth of parts to the guy I gave the car to for $300). I've made a couple of other mistakes with project cars, and if I have done it again I am going to have to give up cars and stick with video games as a hobby.

Russ