Thinking about getting a 1963 Bonneville. Am I nuts?

[russosborne]

Hi, just found this site, seems great.
I have mostly been a Ford guy in the past, but have some Pontiac in my blood.

I am thinking about getting a 63 Bonneville. It is between that and a 70 Lemans 2 door.
The Lemans I am comfortable with since I used to own a 70 GTO back in the 80's.
The Bonneville interests me because my dad used to have a 63 Gran Prix until my mom wrecked it(not her fault). This was when I was around 5-7 years old or so back in the 60's. I know the Bonneville isn't quite the same, but like the Lemans choice, it is within my budget, while the real thing isn't. The Lemans is listed at $2900, the Bonneville at $2200.

My main question is about upgrading things on the Bonneville. Such as disk brakes, aftermarket wheels, air conditioning, that sort of stuff. I may be wrong, but I think that this is an 8 lug car, correct? Would I have to change that to a more standard 5 lug, and if so, how?

I am not looking to make this into a road racer or anything, just want some of the more modern type things.

Also, this car supposedly had a 421 with tri power, but now has something else. Is the 421 hard/expensive to come by, as well as the tri power?

Appreciate any thoughts or guidance on this. Hoping to make a decision in a week or so, if either or both of the cars are still available. I will have some money left to do some upgrades on either car, but I have no clue about pricing for the Bonneville. Or even what is available.

And I will definitely become a full member here once I own whichever.

Thanks,
Russ

[Larry]

If I had a choice, and all things were essentially equal (condition, completeness etc.), I would surely choose the '63 Bonneville.

While the '70 Lemans is a nice car, I think the Bonneville would out class it in the long run. There are probably five '70 Lemans' around for every '63 Bonneville today.

Since the Bonneville is one of the top end models, just below the GP, it would be a good investment. That being said, parts will be a bit more difficult, but not impossible. If you are not trying to make a numbers-matching, original show winner, you can have a lot of fun building it just like you want.

That includes the engine. If it was a 421 car, that will be an expensive route to take if you plan to put one back in. And even after all that, it still wouldn't be a numbers matching car. I would just go with what is in it (probably a 389 or 400) and works well. You can always build it up later. There is a ton of potential in each.

While Tri-Powers are neat, a good aluminum manifold and 4-bbl of your favorite choosing will save a boatload of money, and outperform too.

If this car has 8-lugs, it will take research to be sure they are the right ones for the car, and inspection to be sure they are in good, safe operating condition. If replacing them becomes an option, get ready to spend some big money. If you just want good looking wheels, the 8-lugs will probably sell for as much or more than you need to convert to regular drums and have money left over for nice aftermarket wheels. Purests will want the 8-lugs... me? I'd kill for some Crager SSs!

I would have to research the disc brake conversion, but bet there are plenty of doners out there without having to go to an aftermarket conversion.

Check the '63 frame underside carefully in the transmission area as they were prone to rust there. What type of tramsmission does it have?

What part of the country are the cars? Are they both operational? The prices sound pretty low.

Are there any special qualities for the Lemans?

Let us know what direction you go.

[russosborne]

Thanks, Larry.

Both cars and me are in Ohio. Both are supposedly operational. That is a condition that I have told my wife that whatever car I buy has to be in. She is paying for the car, so I don't mind. Besides, I haven't had the best of luck when starting with cars that aren't complete and running from the start.
I haven't seen either in person yet, waiting until I have the cash, which should have been last week, but the holidays messed everything up. But should be soon.

The Lemans would be so I could pretty much clone my old GTO. I miss that car terribly. It just has the 350/350 combo, disk brakes have been added, but still a bench seat and column shift. New HEI from summit racing, and a carter carb on an edelbrock intake. Needs some minor front end sheet metal repair, but I would want to add the endura bumper anyway. Needs some tuning still, but seller says I could drive it home no problem. I have talked to him on the phone.
Here is the ad for it.
"this is a 1970 pontiac lemans 350 pontiac 350 turbo trans. rally wheels / just installed disk brakes/ edlebrock rpm intake /carter carb / and new summit hei distributer has damage to front left fender and header"
This car is the same blue as my GTO, which is what got my attention in the first place. I was actually looking for another 69 Mustang when I came across this and realised just how badly I did miss the GTO.

The Bonneville seems decent from what I can see. Again, just in pictures which can be decieving.
Here is the ad, without the contact info.
"Originally was a 421 Tri-power car Now has a low mileage 1965 389 in it with a rebuilt 350 turbo transmission with a shift kit. It also has a low-geared posi-traction rear-end
The mechanic that installed the motor didnt change the oil pan gasket & it leaks oil bad. The motor came out of an old mans car & does not smoke or tick. It has 34k original miles The frame & floor pan are clean
The body needs some work but its not that bad. I have a factory console for it. It also has a Magna-Flow exhaust system on it "

Neither car would become a numbers correct car, I am not into that.

Are you saying that I could easily change the Bonneville to a 5 lug car if it is an 8? I don't know anything at all about those things. But if it is pretty common, then that would be the way to go for me I think.

Thanks for all the help.
Russ

[russosborne]

Ok, now I feel stupid. I looked up the 8 lug option, and found out what it consists of. So changing over to a 5 lug system isn't a big deal.

At least in the process I found a guy selling a 1/25th 1963 Grand Prix resin conversion kit, so I can build one up for my dad. His 70th birthday is in September and that would be a cool present. Just hoping my mom can find the pictures from way back when and I can figure out the color. A friend of his (named Squeeg) painted it for him, it was some sort of custom reddish orange.

Still waiting for the money, I am pretty sure I will be going with the 63 Bonneville. The more I think about it the more I want it over the Lemans. The guy just put a new ad on Craigslist for it, so as of today at least he still has it for sale.

Russ

[Larry]

The Lemans sounds like it has had some good things done to it so far... and then the Bonneville sounds pretty nice too.

Since both hold some special attachments for you, either would be a fine choice. The GP would be a classy way to go, but the Lemans might be an easier one... parts availability and such.

Since either would be a good choice, you are in a good position to do a very accurate comparison of the two, and which ever one you choose-- YOU WIN!

Keep us posted. Not a bad position to be in... better than having two good looking gals who are both after you-- that one always turns out bad!

[russosborne]

Well, the Lemans has been repriced out of my budget. Maybe the guy did some more work on it, I don't know. But it is now listed at $3200.

I have been really wanting the Bonneville anyway, this makes the choice a no brainer. And the seller has come down on his price to $1875. One thing I have noticed is that none of the pictures show the driver's side of the car. I am hoping that isn't intentional. Might have the money in the next week, so hoping to be able to check it out in person soon.

Russ

[russosborne]

Looks like the Bonneville has sold. I was really worried about that. Of course, the money I have been waiting on will be here next week. But too late now. sigh.
Maybe I will take another look at the 70 Lemans, but after deciding the Bonneville was what I really wanted it feels like I would be just settling for second best. Again. And having to pay more to get it.
Not really sure what I will do now.
Thanks for the help and advice.
Russ

[Larry]

Philosophically, I guess it wasn't meant to be... and that's not a bad thing.

When you have the money in hand, set it aside in a safe place and then start looking around. There is no hurry, no pressure, no this-or-that decision to make.... only the fun of shopping for exactly what you want, and at the price you wish to pay.

You'll be surprised at how many cars (hopefully Pontiacs) there are out there for sale... many you may never have even envisioned as a possibility. Now the real fun begins!

Have fun!!

[russosborne]

The seller of the Bonneville just reposted it on Craigslist at an even lower price. Just after I had talked myself into looking at the Lemans.
He added that the oilpan is rusted and leaking, and that there is rust thru on the drivers wheel well. Neither of which is a huge issue, as long as the rust isn't all along the driver's side.
And the money I have been waiting on could be here as early as Tuesday.

Now if he still has it next week I am going to go look at it as soon as I have the cash. I work nights, so I will just have to get up extra early. If I don't end up in the hospital between this, still moving(bought a house and still have stuff at the old place), and work

Russ

[Larry]

On again, off again..... no wonder car guys have a beer 'frig in the garage.

You're in the driver's seat for sure now. Sounds like the sale before fell through.

Check it over very carefully... don't forget the frame, transmission cross piece, and over the differential. Those years seemed to suffer frame rot.

Good luck, and keep us posted on the adventure.