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1936 Pontiac 4 door Master Six

 
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kkmonte



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:21 pm    Post subject: 1936 Pontiac 4 door Master Six Reply with quote

Hi all, I just bought my buddies 1936 4 dr master six. He had a 2 door that he is restoring and he bought this 4 door for parts and I inherited all the after parts so I can hot-rod it. He is trying to keep his stock.

I have the frame and my plan is to go with the mustang ii front suspension with a sbc motor. I marked both axle lines up to the frame prior to removing the front (the rear is still on the car so i can pick it up and roll it around like a rickshaw.. Smile In the service manual, I have all the information on body bolt hole locations, measurements, etc.

Well I ordered my new crossmember kit (heidts) and i'm trying to get ready for when it comes figuring out where it goes in the front. I know the car has a 112" wheel base. Well I used the dimensions from Fig 154 on page 98 and drew the entire thing in autocad (I used to be an engineer/surveyor so i have all the equipment still). I then used my total station and recorded the location of all bolt holes, front/back of frame, CL frame, and axle centerlines. In autocad I can easily get perpendicular dimensions, alot more accurate then pulling a tape measure.

So bottom line, my front axle CL mark to my rear axle CL mark is only 111". All other body bolt holes were all within 1/8" to where the diagram shows (I was very surprised at how good they were at building these frames back then!). Now when I plumbed both lines up on the frame, there was no load on the frame so the shackles were pretty much straight up and down. Obviously the axles have to move a little bit when shackles go in and out right? I'm sure there is enough room with the fenders for some play ?? There is an elongated hole on each side of the outside of the frame that looks like should be the CL axle in the rear (when the shackle is up and down), and that is what I used to locate the rear axle on my frame, however on my friends car (which has the body and full load on it), the rear axle is 3/4" back from that elongated hole.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

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Larry
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: 1936 Wheelbase Reply with quote

You bring up a curious point that I doubt many have considered. Does the wheelbase measurement change as the springs are compressed? I'm betting it does, that is, moving backwards as the spring goes down.

I don't know if that elongated hole is where the wheelbase is actually calculated from, but if your friend's loaded car has the axle 3/4" behind that hole, I don't think it is a measure point.

If all the other dimensions check out, and we can assume the frame is not short for some reason (who would do such a thing), I'm guessing the rear axle is used to measure wheelbase while in some loaded (back) position.

Can you check your friend's frame to yours from other known points going forward to the front CL?

BTW, what do we have to do to change your mind on the SBC? I'm redoing my '40 Pontiac and going with a '73 Trans Am 400 setup. If you want a smaller block, how about a genuine Pontiac 350? They are great engines. Most of us really like to see Pure Pontiac all the way.

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kkmonte



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Larry, thanks for the reply. Yea i'm not quite sure as this is the first classic car i'm restoring. I figure the wheelbase has to be measured when the car is fully loaded (since both front and wheel axles are on springs, they both should go outwards since the front spring is on a shackle as well). I'll try measuring my buddies car wheelbase with a tape measure, and if it seems to be 112", then maybe I put the crossmember (which would also mean the front axle) at the "relaxed" position that his is in now.

The funny thing is when you look at this diagram (attached), the 16 5/8" measurement in the front looks like its from the front of the frame to the front of the axle, not the CL, however my plumbed up CL axle line was exactly 17" from the front of the frame (so mine was 3/8" off of what they call for). Maybe with the weight of the engine, it would push that forward 3/8" and the rear would be pushed back 5/8" which would give me the exact 112" wheelbase..

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kkmonte



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and about the SBC, I dunno, I'm not totally set on that, I just figured it was the cheapest and easiest way to go with many parts easily available for it. I'm not building the car to original, I'd like to keep the outside to look mostly original, however under the hood and inside the car will be a different story. Smile Going to modernize the interior, new radio, bucket seats, etc. What type of a car would have a small block v8 pontiac engine? Does it matter which year?
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kkmonte



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just a quick update, I went back out to my frame in my garage and pushing down on the frame above the rear axle (i'm a big guy) i'm able to visably move the rear axle back quite a bit. I had my friend push down and sit on it, and then I plumbed up the rear axle up to the frame and it was a big 3/4" towards the rear from that original elongated hole that I measured it from.

So My guess like we figured is that the wheelbase dimension is measured when the car is fully put together with all fluids but no passengers. Since I know the rear axle can move a good 3/4" out, i'll check my buddies front axle, and if its as far forward with the engine and stuff in it, i'll make an adjustment since the mustang ii suspension won't be moving front to back at all. Smile

Thanks.

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Larry
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Frame Measurements Reply with quote

You are being very exacting, and I think in the final analysis you will be fine. After all, even 3/8 to 3/4 of an inch wouldn't even be noticeable.

The only thing about the Chebby engines is that everybody and their brother has them in their street rods. I'm going all Pontiac with modernizing my '40, and Pontiac People REALLY appreciate an ALL Pontiac car, even a resto rod. Any Pontiac 350 would be a great engine. A 400 would actually be the same size too, and very plentiful out there. Real Pontiac guys do not like seeing SBC engines in their cars. Guess we're kinda funny that way. There is plenty of stuff for the older Pontiac engines available too, from stock to performance. Look for something after about 1973 and you'll have the lower compression for today's gas.

Keep us posted on your progress.

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